The Fluoride Deception

Hailed as a harmless chemical that would prevent tooth decay, new evidence shows how fluoride could be linked to serious health problems. Fluoridation was first advanced in the US at the end of the second World War. Proponents argued that fluoride in water and toothpaste would help to protect teeth and prevent decay. Over the following decades, fluoride was added to public water supplies across the country.

While the benefits of fluoridation have been held to be unquestionable, accumulating evidence points to a frightening prospect: that fluoride may have serious adverse health effects, including infant mortality, congenital defects and IQ. Now a new book, titled “The Fluoride Deception” by Christopher Bryson examines the background of the fluoridation debate. According to Bryson, research challenging fluoride’s safety was either suppressed or not conducted in the first place. He says fluoridation is a triumph not of medical science but of US government spin.

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72 Responses to "The Fluoride Deception"

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  2. law  February 27, 2012 at 12:23 am

    fluoridated water is also toxic to thyroid gland, causing production of hormone to drop, yet mimicking same in lab tests so many, if even tested, are not diagnosed or treated. nazis found it beneficial in water at the death camps, however,noting it made prisoners more managable.

    Reply
  3. Yiannis  April 9, 2013 at 6:56 am

    Internet is free and censorship is unacceptable. That having been said, I would still propose, you are more carefull with what you post and how you phrase it. Sensationalism is not science.

    Reply
    • Paul Boundy  April 9, 2013 at 9:55 pm

      Maybe this is sensational as it is news to so many people, but the science is there to back it so I can’t see a reason not to publish it.

    • Yiannis  April 9, 2013 at 10:17 pm

      I am sorry but there is not one shred of scientific evidence to support this article. As the article itself claims. “research challenging fluoride’s safety was either suppressed or not conducted in the first place”. And that, only on the authors say so.

    • l  April 10, 2013 at 11:59 pm

      just do some research yourself and you’ll soon realize how bad it is for you. it’s one of the most TOXIC chemical known to man, the people who’s job it is to put the fluoride in the water have to wear hazard suits and the vats have a skull and cross bone on them. It eats through metal, glass and is the cause of that HUGE sink whole in California. Just do some research and stop believing what THEY are telling you, as they want you to believe its good for you. As Hitler said, “If you tell a lie long and loud enough, people will eventually start to believe it” :D

  4. Chris Marcinowicz  April 9, 2013 at 9:06 am

    Fluoride in water and toothpaste is responsible for hypothyroidism, something which affects the health of thousands of people. Unfortunately the present blood test ranges for diagnosing hypothyroidism are antiquated and many people are suffering as they are not getting a proper diagnosis. Go to http://www.tpa-uk.org for for information.

    Reply
  5. mikhail_lem  April 9, 2013 at 11:13 am

    It’s a communist plot to take control of our precious bodily fluids…

    Reply
    • Yiannis  April 9, 2013 at 10:23 pm

      LOL. You nailed it.
      Actually mikhail is making a very serious statement. Here is an extract from wiki / water fluoridation controversy / cospiracy theories
      “Water fluoridation has frequently been the subject of conspiracy theories. During the “Red Scare” in the United States during the late 1940s and 1950s, and to a lesser extent in the 1960s, activists on the far right of American politics routinely asserted that fluoridation was part of a far-reaching plot to impose a socialist or communist regime. They also opposed other public health programs, notably mass vaccination and mental health services.[58] Their views were influenced by opposition to a number of major social and political changes that had happened in recent years: the growth of internationalism, particularly the UN and its programs; the introduction of social welfare provisions, particularly the various programs established by the New Deal; and government efforts to reduce perceived inequalities in the social structure of the United States.”
      Nice of you to bring it up again!!!

  6. reason  April 9, 2013 at 11:17 am

    This is report isn’t sensationalist in the slightest. The dangers of fluoride have been known about for a long time and recent studies are confirming its toxic and deleterious affects on health, those from Harvard and the university of Shenyang in China referenced below.

    http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/07/harvard-study-published-in-federal-government-journal-finds-fluoride-lowers-childrens-iq.html

    thanks for this post.

    Reply
    • Yiannis  April 14, 2013 at 9:59 pm

      Dear reason,
      I am very fond of science. Being so I am also very fond of reading articles and paying attention to detail. Please tell me how you happened to miss the following in the articles that you have brought forward. “Extremely high levels of fluoride”, “high fluoride content”, “high-fluoride areas” etc and that is just in the main article. The scientific reports themselves kick ass, if I may be permitted such language, quoting very spesific fluoride levels which are miles away from those you will find the WHO proposing or in your water supply.
      Using “Jane’tt activist pro Fluoridation in our water supply” point, I will direct you to check out what would happen to you if you took a “high” dosage of oxygen. Does that mean we should stop breathing?

  7. Richard Davis  April 9, 2013 at 1:57 pm

    “While the benefits of fluoridation have been held to be unquestionable,…”

    The benefits of fluoride in preventing dental caries ARE unquestionable. What’s questionable is the practice of putting fluoride compounds into the public water supply, since not all users benefit, and most of the fluoride goes down the drain.

    Reply
    • Nadine Anderson  April 9, 2013 at 2:26 pm

      wrong! there are no benifits to dental fluoridation only lies but if consider fluoridosis a good thing…go ahead

    • Richard Davis  April 9, 2013 at 2:49 pm

      Nadine – Where does your information come from on this? Are you disputing that fluoride does not aid in the prevention of dental caries (cavities)? Why would you challenge such an easily verifiable point?
      Fluoride may well cause other problems, but its role in preventing cavities is not seriously in dispute anywhere where science holds sway!

  8. carol  April 9, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Dick, hyou haven’t watched the video, it creates carries by breaking down the enamel, you are one stupid bastard. the aloco’s of the world, instead of spending millions on waste disposal, they sell it to counties, country wide as good for cavity protection when its a nerotoxin, fucking do some more reasearch and keep that pie hole shut, dolt, try some more “research” he try this http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=fluoride%20%20role%20in%20preventing%20cavities%20is%20%20seriously%20in%20dispute%20anywhere%20where%20science%20holds%20sway&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CD0QFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffoundingfather1776.wordpress.com%2Fcategory%2Ffluoride%2Fpage%2F2%2F&ei=vTlkUaWFC7KE0QHxpIHgBw&usg=AFQjCNG1HMwbLyMQQLmdZupDlxCmBSDTlA

    Reply
    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 1:48 am

      Carol, I am a dental professional. To be more specific, I am a dental hygienist, and I deal constatnly with the latest information on fluoride and its cavity-prevention benefits. If you’d like to discuss this like educated people, I’m all for it. I can quote you paragraphs upon paragraphs from my various textbooks on the subject.

      Suffice to say, however, that only fluoride levels HIGHER THAN OPTIMAL would lead to dental and/or skeletal fluorosis, which is the “creates carries [sic] by breaking down the enamel” circumstance to which you are referring. Just like there is an optimal amount of calories to eat per day, so exists an optimal amount of fluoride for developing children to ingest, as well as children AND adults to brush upon their teeth.

  9. Paul Boundy  April 9, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    European countries don’t put fluoride into their water and their teeth are fine. Their are other factors that affect the health of teeth such as diet that has not been considered in these studies.

    Reply
    • Yiannis  April 9, 2013 at 10:45 pm

      Let me try to add to this. Many countries worldwide (why just stick with europe) do not put fluoride into their water. Those that don’t, seek alternative methods such as adding fluoride to table salt (which as we all know is great for the health. Just a bit of irony), don’t need to because their water already contains fluoride or, don’t have a water supply to begin with. The ONLY studies ever conducted on the subject were inconclusive as to the effects of fluoride, at the levels the WHO proposes. Here are some of them :
      McDonagh MS, Whiting PF, Wilson PM, Sutton AJ, Chestnutt I, Cooper J, Misso K, Bradley M, Treasure E, Kleijnen J (7 October 2000). “Systematic review of water fluoridation”. BMJ 321 (7265): 855–9. doi:10.1136/bmj.321.7265.855. PMC 27492. PMID 11021861. Full report: McDonagh MS, Whiting PF, Bradley M, Cooper J, Sutton AJ, Chestnutt I, Misso K, Paul Wilson P, Treasure E, Kleijnen J (September 2000). A Systematic Review of Public Water Fluoridation. NHS Centre for Reviews and Dissemination. ISBN 1-900640-16-3. Authors’ commentary: Treasure ET, Chestnutt IG, Whiting P, McDonagh M, Wilson P, Kleijnen J (2002). “The York review—a systematic review of public water fluoridation: a commentary”. Br Dent J 192 (9): 495–7. doi:10.1038/sj.bdj.4801410a. PMID 12047121.

  10. Jane'tt activist pro Fluoridation in our water supply  April 10, 2013 at 2:25 am

    Thank you Yiannis for giving correct Scientific information!
    Fluoride opponents are fond of stating that that the bags containing the sodium fluoride used to fluoridate Arcata’s water are labelled “TOXIC.” The bags contain pure sodium fluoride and this substance, if ingested in large quantities (such as dipping your spoon into the bag and eating it), is indeed toxic. However, simply because something is toxic under certain circumstances (e.g. high dose) does not make it toxic under all circumstances, and certain “toxic substances” are actually necessary for life. Iodine (which is in the same periodic table group as fluorine) is also toxic when ingested in large quantities. However if iodine were not added to table salt, the incidence of thyroid disease (goiter) would increase because this element is necessary for health. Oxygen administered at 100% under pressure is also toxic, which is why divers do not use pure oxygen. Even pure water can be toxic if one ingests too much of it.

    Reply
    • Yiannis  April 11, 2013 at 7:15 am

      HEY!!! I came in to write just that only to find that you had stolen my lines!!! Are you a government agent too or do you simply use your reason to come to your inescapable conclusions?

  11. Kevin Gustafson  April 10, 2013 at 10:47 pm

    I know fluoride DOES help prevent cavities in some people. I know for a fact that my mom and also my friend’s mom put fluoride drops in our drinks when we were children. We both are 23 years old now and have never had a cavity. His younger brother and my older brother, also have never had a cavity. I, when growing up would brush my teeth usually once a day, just in the morning before school. I ate tons of sugary foods such as chocolate, cookies, pop, koolaid, and juices, etc. I would brush my teeth at night sometimes if I remembered to. I also never flossed my teeth, still to this day even when I had my braces for three years, only twice a year when I go to the dentist, when they do it for me. With that being said, in my mind I believe it does work in preventing tooth decay. I don’t know, maybe its just a coincidence that all 4 of us, all who had fluoride as children, don’t have cavities. I’ll let you guys know if I have any adverse side affects from it in the coming years. Anyone who believe this crap about the gov trying to control us with the water are fucking paranoid lol. The gov is fucked, but the water is fine. Just drop it.

    Reply
    • bre  April 11, 2013 at 2:45 am

      Flouride is good for the teeth.. not the body or ingesting it.. know the difference.

    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 1:52 am

      Bre–

      You need to know the difference between safe, optimal levels of fluoride for ingestion, versus unsafe levels for ingestion. Fluoride is bad for teeth when ingesting too much at a younger age.

      –Lance

  12. Yiannis Friend  April 10, 2013 at 11:39 pm

    Yiannis, how much government is paying you ?

    Reply
    • Yiannis  April 11, 2013 at 7:12 am

      Let me see if I understand your thinking.
      IF I need proof, in the form of scientific experiment and research, to even consider acknowledging a theory, I am a government agent.
      IF I accept everything that someone says, with no more reason than the promise of scandal and conspiracy, then I am a cool Joe.
      Is that it?
      No wonder the world is going down the drain.

  13. mattprime86  April 11, 2013 at 1:01 am

    I can’t take ANY one of you seriously, because not one comment has been without spelling or grammatical error. Go back to school.

    Reply
    • bartidd  August 18, 2013 at 6:20 pm

      You’re won seek sun offer beach! ;)

    • bartidd  August 18, 2013 at 6:26 pm

      Ooops – I accidently used the right ‘you’re’ – meant to put Your ;)

  14. Jerry  April 11, 2013 at 5:44 am

    In NL they put chloride into the water, to kill bacterias. Chloride is also not good for your body. But you need water every day. The best is probably have groundwater pump in your garden and then cook it before you drink it (but probably you can drink it without cooking first), anyway if you live in a skyscraper then you’ll need a very long tube under your waterpump hahaha.

    Reply
  15. Mikael Guggenheim  April 11, 2013 at 10:32 am

    “Over the following decades, fluoride was added to public water supplies across the country.”

    “Fluoride may have serious adverse health effects, including infant mortality, congenital defects and IQ.”

    Hehe… So next time I call an American stupid… :P

    Nah. Just kiddin.

    Reply
  16. Sinnaiy Emwolb  April 11, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Well, I don’t need to make any research about this matter because it’s a matter of common sense. If I want to drink a glass of water (that should be H2O in liquid state) that’s all. If I want to spice my meal with salt, again, that’s all I want to do. Now, why in hell should I want fluor on my water? Why in hell should I want fluor on my salt? Because of my teeth health? Well then, if that is the train of thought, they should add C vitamin (for my inmune system), calcium (for my bones), magnesium (to fix the calcium to my bones), and why not a little protein (for my muscles). But they just add… Fluor. Well I guess we should all be thankful for this, cause they do the hardest part. If you want C vittamin, Calcium, Magnesium… we just have to buy some multi-vitamin anywhere and it’s done. But fluor, well that’s the tricky part. Fluor it’s toxic indeed, so agressive that melts down glass but they say is good for my teeth smalt, nice. And hey! Fluor is the unwanted result in the alumino manufacture process (I mean, waste, industrial waste, toxic waste) so two birds in a row… Toxic waste in behalf of public health! God bless america. Cheers!

    Reply
  17. Gareth Lowe  April 12, 2013 at 12:38 am

    Sodium fluoride was is to fluoridate water. This is used in rat poison. Please stop drinking it.

    FACTS ABOUT FLUORIDE
    – Fluoride is a waste by-product of the fertilizer and aluminum industry and it’s also a Part II Poison under the UK Poisons Act 1972.

    – Fluoride is one of the basic ingredients in both PROZAC (FLUoxetene Hydrochloride) and Sarin nerve gas (Isopropyl-Methyl-Phosphoryl FLUoride).

    – USAF Major George R. Jordan testified before Un-American Activity committees of Congress in the 1950’s that in his post as U.S.-Soviet liaison officer, the Soviets openly admitted to “Using the fluoride in the water supplies in their concentration camps, to make the prisoners stupid, docile, and subservient.”

    – The first occurrence of fluoridated drinking water on Earth was found in Germany’s Nazi prison camps. The Gestapo had little concern about fluoride’s supposed effect on children’s teeth; their alleged reason for mass-medicating water with sodium fluoride was to sterilize humans and force the people in their concentration camps into calm submission. (Ref. book: “The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben” by Joseph Borkin.)

    – 97% of western Europe has rejected fluoridated water due to the known health risks, however 10% of Britons drink it and the UK government is trying to fast track the fluoridation of the entire country’s water supply.

    – In Germany, Belgium and Luxembourg fluoridation of water was rejected because it was classified as compulsive medication against the subject’s will and therefore violated fundamental human rights.

    – In November of 2006, the American Dental Association (ADA) advised that parents should avoid giving babies fluoridated water.

    Reply
    • Yiannis  April 12, 2013 at 4:37 am

      I wonder about your insistense on perverting and twisting facts or quoting ouright falsehoods. Do you have a degree in ANYTHING sir or do you believe that education is also a cospiracy by the government to control the population?
      Please excuse the question but I am not going to waste another hour of my life on gathering evidence (with links) for someone who in another era would burn witches on the stake.

    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 1:57 am

      You buffoon! The only good point you make is the second-to-last. I can tell you, because of my degree in Dental Hygiene, that the ADA advised giving babies fluoridated water because those babies are still babies, and they couldn’t handle such a high dose of fluoride. You can’t give babies honey either, and yet, there’s no “honey conspiracy,” now is there? I honestly don’t care if you don’t want to drink fluoridated water. That’s your choice.

      But you can make a choice right now to further educate yourself on ALL facts about fluoride, not just the conspiracy theorists’ facts.

    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 2:15 am

      That is, the ADA advised *against* giving babies fluoridated water…

  18. Chris Moulton  April 12, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    The brain washing is deep on you supporters of fluoride! It is a hazardous waste of industry and they have cleverly found a way to dispose of it at a profit! Wake the hell up out of your fluoride coma!

    Reply
  19. Annette  May 14, 2013 at 6:09 am

    If you want to prevent dental cavities, brush and floss your teeth, and eat healthy food. The less chemicals we ingest, the better. It isn’t science, it is common sense.

    Reply
    • Rowena  May 14, 2013 at 6:41 am

      Totally agree. I have fluoride treatments occasionally at the dentist and have no problem with it being in my toothpaste but it absolutely should not be in the water, where we cannot control our consumption or moderate our own health. Whether you’re for or against the use of fluoride there is one common sense conclusion, that we all have a right to access clean, uncontaminated water and the government putting chemicals (whether objectively ‘safe’ or not) infringes on an individuals essential right to water by giving them no choice other than to ingest fluoride.

      The money should be put into dental care itself, where people can elect to have it or not.

    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 2:01 am

      Fluoride is also a naturally occurring substance found in nature. Is carbon dioxide a “chemical” too? What about Nitrogen?

      Ever try to absolutely make sure a 7-year-old brushes and flosses their teeth? Good luck. That’s what the fluoride drops and treatments are for.

  20. smilereactor  May 14, 2013 at 6:31 am

    I am brushing my teeth without using any tooth paste for several years now. Never had cleaner teeth as I have now. So, before arguing whether fluoride is good or bad for your health, maybe a better question is: do we need it? Why spend money on something that is not needed? Don’t trust something someone is saying. Try for yourself and see if it works for you. Leave the arguments for the others.

    Reply
    • smilereactor  May 14, 2013 at 6:38 am

      Of course, there’s another question about your nutrition. I am vegan and biggest part of my food is in raw state – no processed sugars and lots of fiber. If you consume lots of sweets and the like the use of tooth paste might be inevitable.

    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 1:59 am

      smilereactor–

      Please come see me at the dentist’s office where I work, so I can actually see and document on paper the health of your teeth. Otherwise, your story is suspect–not impossible, just improbable. Yet, you COULD be brushing your teeth using fluoridated water…

  21. Steve  May 14, 2013 at 10:23 am

    I am a exercise physiologist with a 6 year university degree. I deal with severe overweight patients with hormonal deficiencies. One major factor in the development of these is fluorides affect of anabolic fat mobilisation hormones. The first poa for overweight patients – ensure you are drinking fluoride free water. Within 2 weeks energy levels are through the roof with improved mental alertness and clarity.

    Reply
  22. Felipe Perez  May 14, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    Some pretty backward ass statements being made here. The study of Fluoride has been done many times over and the results couldn’t be me more clear. Completely stupid to ingest. There are sooooooo many things to factor into the health of your teeth but lets narrow down a few. First genetics, brushing your teeth, properly and more than once a day, drinking the right amount of water, white flour & white sugar, cigarettes, alcohol, getting punched in the mouth ( couldn’t resist that ) , stress, etc. The active ingredient in rat poison is? Fluoride! The fluoride produced for our water consumption is the waste by product of pesticides….that’s right, pesticides. And if you don’t know how bad those are for ya? This conversation is mute. Edward Bernese introduced the use of fluoride for the shear purpose of waste disposal ( look it up ) in the early 1900’s. The government to a liking to Mr. Bernese and started a campaign convincing the public with very little evidence, if any, that it could prevent cavities. ( “Forks over Knives” on Netflix covers this subject well ) Hitler used fluoride on his prisoners to sedate them and made it a lot easier for them to control. In fact, it causes calcification over your pineal gland. Your pineal gland is the size of a grain of rice. It governs quite a bit but here are couple of functions you wouldn’t want to mess with. Your thyroid, melatonen and it is also said that this is your spiritual 3rd eye. There are studies also indicating it’s contribution to depression. Now that’s worth looking into! There are thousands of doctors around the country speaking up about it. Alaska had it removed from there water and other countries are fighting this heated battle.

    Reply
    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 2:06 am

      And yet…fluoride in toothpaste everywhere has helped prevent cavities. Yes or no?

  23. kaybabe88  August 18, 2013 at 6:16 am

    So what water can we drink then??? They say bottled water has carcinogens so wer screwer either way.

    Reply
  24. john mcalpine  August 18, 2013 at 8:24 am

    hey guys ,there is obviously something wrong with fluoride, otherwise there would not be so much concern as to its safety , if you care to look and not just blindly beleive people like yiannis who is obviously pushing government line’s, there are heaps of studies out there that show it is dangerous, and at the end of the day, if in doubt dont use it on your loved ones,and take a chance on damaging there health, just because the government tells you it is safe, beleive me they are not your friend, one of the best ways to protect your teeth is to simply keep them clean using baking soda and coconut oil and floss them every day, and get yourselves agood water filter that takes out chlorine and fluoride even though it is expensive, it is far cheaper than your bad health . And remember we are supposed to have freedom of choice in what we eat and drink

    Reply
    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 2:08 am

      John,

      Please substitute the word “alcohol” for “fluoride” in the first line of your above post. Do you get the point I’m making?

      Lance

    • john mcalpine  August 20, 2013 at 9:55 am

      LANCE , GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ARSE, YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY WORKING FOR THE FLUORIDE INDUSTRY , I HAVE KNOWN PLENTY OF SELF INTERESTED PONCES LIKE YOUR SELF THAT PUSH THE PHARMACEUTICAL LINES ON TO UNSUSPECTING PEOPLE , AS IF YOU ARE AN AUTHORITY ON THE SUBJECT, YOU ARE NO LESS THAN AN IDIOT, WHO IS CAUSING MISERY TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC UNDER THE GUISE OF KNOWLEDGE FROM THERE TEXTBOOKS, .PS HOW MUCH ARE THEY PAYING YOU??? GET THE POINT MY FRIEND!!!!!

    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 2:31 pm

      John,

      Before you jump down my throat, please educate yourself. There are two delivery methods of fluoride: ingested (swallowed) and topical (applied to the surface, not swallowed) Ingested would be: fluoridated water, fluroide tablets, vitamins, etc., and topical would be toothpastes, mouthwashes, prescription-strength gels. There IS a safe level of fluroide. There IS a safe level of alcohol. You missed my point.

      Just because I work in the dental profession does not mean I’m pushing an agenda…it just means I have a degree specifically dealing with PROPER fluoride usage. I know how fluoride works to help prevent cavities, WHEN USED CORRECTLY. Can you say the same?

  25. Bo Shaffer  August 18, 2013 at 9:00 am

    So, Yiannis…where are you now??? Every bit of evidence cited to you, you call false with bullshit arguments. Every thing *you* present is gospel. Like that three of the four citations you gave were from the same group of scientists….no wonder they all agree.
    Your acceptance of what you’re told, even when contrary to what you observe, indicates you have no thoughts of your own and are easily influenced.
    Gareth cited some facts and you just attacked his personality…..classic.
    Fl’s benefits are not being questioned…..drugging me without my consent is what the issue is. Just as in my town, they try to say the majority of people,are fine with being sprayed with a poison….because it *might* prevent a couple people from getting the sniffles. Everybody can be poisoned ….just a little bit…..so that everyone can be nice and safe from mosquitoes and cavities and never have either any more.
    “Those who can give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither.”

    Reply
    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 2:37 am

      Bo,

      You’ve missed the point here. The benefits of fluoride ARE being questioned. There are those saying it doesn’t help prevent cavities at all (the “wingnuts”). Specifically, the benefits vs the disadvantages are called into question here.

      As a libertarian, I side with you on this issue of civil rights and liberties, but as a dental professional, my brain leans the other way. You have not, I bet the farm on it, seen the extent of tooth decay I have…and it IS an epidemic.

      Like I said, I work in a dentist’s office. I have a degree in Dental Hygiene. I have a background in biology. I have several textbooks that not only tell us that fluoride is good for developing and mature teeth, but these textbooks go into a fair amount of detail regarding the specific mechanisms at work and how fluoride ultimately reduces the incidence of caries (cavities).

      I will address Gareth’s cited “facts”:

      Fluoride is a highly reactive element, especially when in ion form. It’s present in Prozac and sarin nerve gas. Hydrogen is a highly reactive element, especially when in ion form. It’s present in benzene (a carcinogen) and sulfuric acid. Oxygen is a highly reactive element, especially when in ion form. It’s present in alcohol and gasoline. Have I made my point clear?

      Debunking the great Nazi-Fluoride myth, perhaps? http://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/14042/did-the-nazis-maliciously-fluoridate-drinking-water

      While we’re on the subject, there is an optimal level of fluoride that may be ingested by developing children, for the purpose of creating stronger, healthier teeth. Fluoride levels that are higher than that are what the conspiracy theorists are up in arms about. Can you think of any other “chemical” that could have negative effects when too much is used? How about calories, or fats, or sugars?

      Yes, yes, the ADA decided against giving babies fluoridated water. Guess why? Because with all the other factors that send mommy and daddy into a whirl of panic and confusion, the parents might forget to tell the doctor that the water system is already fluoridated, leaving the doctor to prescribe a higher-than-optimal dosage of fluoride for a baby. Babies are tiny, remember, and dosages are based on SIZE and WEIGHT. Not only does the primary care physician need to be on top of this, they need to consult with the dentist as well. Too risky, as this can wait until the child is 6 months old–in which case, this “baby” is now a “toddler.”

      You can view the fluoride supplement table at the end of the link, AFTER, I hope, reading the full article: http://www.ada.org/2684.aspx

      Lance

    • Bo Shaffer  August 20, 2013 at 11:21 am

      Well, Lance…like you I am not exactly un-informed. Couple degrees in Biology and working in labs for 50 years. The problem is, the argument is NOT about the merits of Fl…it’s about unintended dosing and whether putting poison into the water system to *possibly* prevent a cavity or two, is really worth the potential damage. In today’s world of fluoridated mouthwash, fluoridated toothpaste, fluoridated city water, fluoridated soda, fluoridated water used in food prep….do we *really* need to add more? How many glasses of water do you drink a day?? *I* drink several liters a day……I get a lot more of a dose than my neighbor, who just drinks Coors beer. The *only* hazardous substance that they have NO idea of the amount any individual ingests.You bet babies are no longer supposed to have Fl-H2O….neither are pregnant mothers or those with neurological disorders, because it’s a hazardous substance.

    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 2:49 am

      Further study, though mostly filed under “personal anecdotes” from (hopefully) real moms: http://www.urbanmamas.com/urbanmamas/2006/09/fluoride_yay_or.html

      Oh, and one dentist who has sided with the anti-fluoride agenda.

    • john mcalpine  August 20, 2013 at 10:22 am

      BY THE WAY LANCE ,DID YOU ALSO KNOW THAT THEY ARE ALLSO GETTING ALOT OF THERE FLUORIDE FROM CHINA , WHERE THERE ARE VIRTUALY NO CHECKS ON THE QUALITY OF IT, SO MY SON ADD THAT TO THE LONG LIST OF FLUORIDE IN EVERY SECOND PIECE OF SHIT THEY FEED CHILDREN THESE DAYS AND YOU CERTAINLY CAN GET AN OVERDOSE WITHOUT EVEN TRYING, SO STOP GIVING US YOUR POMPOSITY BECAUSE YOU ARE A DENTIST , QUALIFIED UNDER THERE CRITERIA, ALL WITH SELF INTERESTS !!

    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 2:43 pm

      Bo,

      Like I said, individual civil rights is a soft spot of mine. But, there are two types of fluoride exposure when it comes to the health of your teeth: ingested and topical.

      You list many topical sources of fluoride, but you have not seen the rampant tooth decay I have seen. Just because it’s out there, doesn’t mean it’s being used properly, or at all. I can tell you that the CORRECT levels of fluoride in drinking water guarantee an 80% reduction in cavities throughout an individual’s lifetime. Can I guarantee that the lack of fluoridated drinking water will do the same? No, but neither can you.

      Also, ingested fluoride is only efficacious during the maturation years of an individual’s life. By the time you are 16 years old, your teeth have basically absorbed intrinsically all the fluoride they will need from ingestible sources. From then on, only the topical fluoride has any more effect on the strengthening of tooth enamel.

      I agree this is a tricky issue, but you completely overlooked the uneducated on here crying that fluoride is a “poison.” So is alcohol. So is arsenic. So is table salt. THERE ARE SAFE LEVELS of each, and there are unsafe levels. Can we agree on that, or no?

      As to whether it should be forced upon us in the drinking water, or if we should line up a government agency for free fluoride droplets, well, that’s only half the issue here. Let us first come together to educate others that fluoride is only a poison in HIGHER THAN ACCEPTABLE levels, just like Vitamin A, or Vitamin E. Then we should address the topic of unwanted fluoride in the water we drink on a daily basis.

    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 2:46 pm

      Bo, the argument IS about the merits of fluoride, because people like yourself cry “poison” or “hazardous substance” without first acknowledging the benefits. All you are saying is that the benefits aren’t the issue, but I say they are the issue FIRST, because the public thinks it is toxic IN EVERY FORM. And that is inaccurate.

    • Lance  August 20, 2013 at 2:55 pm

      John,

      Fluoride in food or products from China is not something that can be regulated here, so blaming the fluoridation of U.S. water and possible accidental overdoses on our society does nothing to help nor solve that problem. And THANK YOU for yelling in ALL CAPITALS, showing that you are devoid of internet manners.

      However, I will address your statement of accidental overdoses. OF COURSE you can get an overdose without even trying–that is the point here. Do not throw out the baby with the bathwater, MY FRIEND, by blanketing fluoride with a “poison” label. My point was that even alcohol has benefits at SAFE LEVELS, but you glossed over that in your apparent rage. With proper regulation of fluoride levels, by an individual, their doctor, and their dentist working together, one can ensure fewer problems for growing children, and fewer problems overall for nutjobs like yourself to cry “foul” over.

      I say again, because you missed it, just like you thought I said I was a dentist (I am not, just like you are not comprehending what I have written):

      FLUORIDE CAN BE SAFE! IT IS NOT ALWAYS POISONOUS!

      Do you get my point now?

      CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW?!?

    • john mcalpine  August 21, 2013 at 11:41 am

      first off lance, your fluoride is not natural, it is a synthesized chemical product, produced by chemists and others (chinese) , and you claim it can be safe in small doses, well i am sorry but i beg to differ, as you state yourself you have degrees in dentistry but i question there knowledge as it comes from vested interests , you have obviously gotten your knowledge from there text books, An d even if your correct about dosage sizes, the real point of the fluoride debate is that unfortunatly every body is getting to much one way or the other , and that in itself is the most important issue, as you know this is not an ideal world, and shit happens, In regards to your opinion of the amount of tooth decay that you say you have seen, to that i would say tell them to change there diets, replace the fluoride with common sense and the correct nutrition , as it has been proven by others to be very benificial, Before fluoride came along the indigenous peoples did not have cavities like they have today, so it is obviously modern living , and chemicals as well as incorect nutrition, So my point is that weather it is safe in small doses or not is not relevent in the big picture as you guys cant control how much they inevitably consume ! And as to your claim of the veracity of fluoride ,there are many other studies out there claiming otherwise, And yes i did jump the gun on you a bit, and i apologise for that, bad day!! Any way having said all that you will never change my mind on the subject b ecause i am a natural medicine researcher and only beleive in the ways of nature, And your fluoride is not natural , like the one our bodies may or may not produce, and in case you hadn;t noticed chemical substitues have a very poor record of benifit to mankind in general And just for your knowledge i drink spring water from a natural spring and do not have any teeth problems at all , not bad for a nutjob eh,,

    • Lance  August 21, 2013 at 4:41 pm

      John,

      You keep begging to differ that fluoride can be safe in small doses, and you state that the fluoride we get here in the U.S. is not “natural” fluoride. Are you debating also on whether fluoride in general is a naturally occurring substance in the natural world? If you say it was found naturally, in a natural state, before the advent of industrialization, then I would argue that it is possible indigenous peoples may have been exposed to fluoride.

      Yes, I agree that ANOTHER issue is that it is hard to control how much fluoride one can ingest, but first we had to flesh out that there are benefits to fluoride use. But I see you will never see that there is.

      Now, let me address the “vested interests” you speak of. First, you are a natural medicine researcher, and you “only believe in the ways of nature.” You’re already biased, and using these “studies” to confirm your position. Am I biased? Yes, but I hold a degree, and have read several studies as well as these textbooks. Does science ever play a part in this? I believe in science. Science can include nature as well, you know. I can be objective when presented with REAL, SCIENTIFIC evidence. I have even taken statistics classes, as well as biostatistics, and an important thing to consider is the source of the study, and oftentimes who paid for it as well. Science has shown that fluoride prevents cavities, without a doubt. Is it the ONLY FACTOR? Of course not.

      Second, why would dentists want their patients to have healthier, cavity-resistant teeth? Because it makes their job easier. More money is made from the patients who take care of their teeth than from those with rampant tooth decay. It’s hard work, takes a lot of time and effort, and dental materials are expensive–you must pay the lab technicians for making crowns and bridges, as well as the dental assistants to sit alongside the dentist. It can’t be done in one visit, there are multiple visits to fix even a single tooth.

      Oh, but you think the dentists are hoping everyone gets too much fluoride, and becomes stupid (read the study: “an average of ONE-HALF OF ONE IQ POINT” lost!), sick, and has dental and skeletal fluorosis. I can tell you that the majority of dentists are actually vested in the HEALTH of their patient’s teeth–or at least, when they first graduate, they are.

      And as for just telling someone (a patient) to “just change there [sic] diets,” you have obviously never seen a patient in a dental setting, nor seen a patient in any medical capacity. How easy do you really think it is to tell an American to change their diet? You can’t even get them to take 2 minutes out of their day to floss.

      Also, fluoride is only bad when ingested, can we agree on that? There is no damage to the body from topical applications, such as mouthwashes, toothpastes, etc.?

      Now, how is your education in terms of chemistry? Do you know the mechanisms not just of fluoride reacting with the tooth enamel, but the breakdown of these toxic sources from which we supposedly get our unnatural fluoride? Do you do any of your research outside of conspiracy theory sites such as “Fluoride Alert” or the like? Most of you nutjobs don’t.

      Just for fun, research the truth regarding the Nazi-fluoride claims. Fine me a real piece of literature showing they actually did use fluoride to keep the population docile.

    • Bo Shaffer  August 21, 2013 at 8:05 pm

      Lance, you make very good points….and, as much as I agree with John..,….He’s not helping by being immature and lacking in knowledge. Again, I say that sure, there’s legitimate and non-hazardous uses for FL…but throwing it out into the public with NO dosage controls seems a little silly, doesn’t it? And even Lance should agree….FL CAN be quite hazardous, just as it can be beneficial. And look at all the newer information we’re getting about the effects of chronic small doses of lots of things. BPA…Endocrine disruptors….the *real* GMO story…Thiomerisol….examples abound in ecological research.
      I’d *really* prefer it if people took their *own* personal responsibility to ensure proper dental care. Regular checkups, regular brushing, professional fluoride treatments, fluoride toothpaste, fluoride mouthwash……instead of pretty much *forcing* me to drink crap in my water so you can be a lazy bastard with good teeth.
      Evolution is being thwarted here (and many other places) and we will suffer from the idiots who are saved from their own stupidity…only to pass on the stupid gene.
      Let evolution work and rid us of these idiots!!!!!

    • john mcalpine  August 22, 2013 at 9:00 am

      Lance first, i will comment on your claim that mouthwashes and toothpastes and topical applications of fluoride are not ingested, there i definatly disagree, as if you put anything under you tounge it is the quickest way into your bloodstream, via your saliva, that is common knowledge in natural medicin e , weather you guys acknowlege that im not sure, but your words seem to verify that fact, so there we disagree As to the indigenous people;s i would say its s quite obviouse that it was there diet of natural foods and individual health practices that made it so, in natural medicine there is a beleif that food is there medicine and medicine is there food, which basicly imply;s that nature provided everything that there bodies needed , and in fact there are studies confirming just that As to weather fluoride is probably in some of there natural diet, if that is the case,then i would, say that it is a naturaly made fluoride, as against a chemicaly made one by man, which i totaly disagree with ! As to my being biased on natural medicine , yes, guilty, however i am not that stupid , or unknowlegible, or immature as BO, PUT IT, To totaly disregard the fact that if mainstream medicine and natural medicine were combined together, it could have great results ! And back to dentists,, my beleif is that of cause there are good ones out there, but also money makers as well, And there are a lot of them that probably arnt aware of the issue of overdosing with fluoride, such as the extra burden of mouthwashes ,toothpaste , fluoridated water, being able to be ingested from the mouth applications ( under the tongue straight into the bloodstream) OH but i forgot you guys dont acknoledge that , PS my daughter actually runs a dentists practice for the owner, and as such i do actually know what goes on with them, as in a lot of them charging exorbitant rates for their services , and yes she does the banking for him as well, so there is no denying that there are great profits b being made by some of them And yes i have actually treated people with natural medicine, with great results i might add, my wife has parkinsons, and has had great results using natural as well as mainstream meds, I will definatly agree that trying to tell an american what is good for them is an uphill battle ! excluding yourself of cause,,, And as for where i do my research, i have been doing it for nigh on twenty years, and one of the most startling facts that i have come to realise is that mainstream medicine does not cure many people, yes they mask the symptoms, with there chemical drugs, but cure, no!!! cancer, there are many natural cures, that they wont allow in there crazed desire to poison them with chemo and radiation, i could go on for hours but you probably wouldnt agree anyway , YES i will look at nazi fluoride claims, And hey just for fun why dont you look up natural cures for cancer, and bear in mind that they probably dont conform to mainstreams billion dollar testing regime;s just for fun my you, signing off as one nutcase to another !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • john mcalpine  August 24, 2013 at 4:01 am

      great article martin wood, very long winded, but certainly shows fluoride for what it is, A very dangerouse substance to use on our loved ones There is an old adage if in doubt ”DONT” A lot of these comments have been centered on the benifit s of small doses being good (as in benifits for dental cavities) true or false, it doesnt matter , what is blaringly obviouse is that every body can receive an overdose care of there govt, policies re ,fl, in so many products, once again great article,,, I DO HOPE LANCE AND BO ,take the time to read this one!!!

  26. CassTete (@CassTete1)  September 24, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Yianni , you full of shit . You not scientific because if you were you know about the Greek that filed Yiamouy iannis who disclosed fluoride AND CANCER correlations so .PISS OFF MALAKA

    Reply
    • Yiannis  September 24, 2013 at 11:33 am

      LOL. You absolute neanderthal. Go away back to your cave.

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